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 US #552 vs ?

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stampdays
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PostSubject: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:52 am

I thought I would seek a little input on the stamps displayed. The #552 is 19x22mm and the other appears to be 19.75 x 21.75mm. I scanned both at the same time so the resolution is the same.

I attribute the height error to it being the first stamp from the bottom of a coil roll. #594 was made from printers waste of #597 (a coil stamp) and reperfed to perf 11.

It is also possible that this 594(?) could have been trimmed on the bottom but it looks like the bottom of the stamp shows some white just below the green. The one I call 594 is perf 11 and does look to me to wider than the common #552, if my eyes are not failing me. I have included scans showing a ruler and it does look to me that I am right. The lower scans are the complete stamps.



#552





#594









The ones below is the original scans.









I would appricate any thoughts on this.

Note: If it is a 594, the value is somewhere around $12,500. I haven't bought a new Harley yet as I don't think I could affort an appraisal of this stamp. I 'm a little leary about the disclaimers when they say that they are not responsible if the stamp gets lost while in their possession.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:13 am

I am more inclined to think it could be #596 since it looks like it came from a sheet stamp. That would be a real find! I could buy a house rather than a Harley!
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:12 pm

i will try to check my books at the house later but if you have the facts i would try talking with an appraiser and see if the information you have gathered is worth following further

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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:07 pm

Same here... I'm not at home at present but what a score it'd be if you have what you think you have!

Those Washington-Franklin stamps can drive one to near insanity.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:26 pm

by closely checking both the scans i found some minor design difference, looks at the tilted pyramid on both top corner upper one does have very smooth design but lower one have pretty descent and smooth design.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:38 pm

AamerJamal wrote:
by closely checking both the scans i found some minor design difference, looks at the tilted pyramid on both top corner upper one does have very smooth design but lower one have pretty descent and smooth design.




My eyes are't that good and I don't have a microscope yet. My guess would be that may be caused by the rotary press as opposed to a flat press printing method.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:52 pm

Bear wrote:
i will try to check my books at the house later but if you have the facts i would try talking with an appraiser and see if the information you have gathered is worth following further


Thanks Bear & Bengalpaws,

I'm not sure what else to provide as I have never been on this boat before.

The recap of what I know for sure is it appears to be 19.???

My 100+th measurement does put it close to 19.5 but it's not quite there. I misspoke on the .75 thingy). Again, my eyes are not as good as they were 20 yrs ago.

The height is a tad less than 22mm and it is definately perf 11.

I can provide a larger comparison scan if that would be of any help. I can even do one that better compares the height of the two stamps.

Let me know if there is something else that I should do or pass on to y'all!


Last edited by stampdays on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:06 pm

try a scan of the stamp in question next to the measuring device at 600 dpi... that can be opened in paint and you can draw clear lines out from the ruler to the frame and that may help you in measuring.. its a trick that Perfs14 put up a while ago...

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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:02 pm





These were done at 600dpi and the line drawn (as suggested by Bear). Clearly there is almost a full one tick difference in width!

lol! I may just have something here.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:51 pm

Greetings Mr. stampdays
.
Too bad your ruler isn't gauged to millimeters, 'cause my eyes are just as bad if not worse than yours and I'm terrible at math and arithmetic.
.
According to 2012 Scott Specialized:
.
552 = 18.5 to 19x22mm
594 = approx. 19.75x22.25mm
596 = approx. 19.25x22.5mm
.
According to 2010 H.E. Harris Stamp Identifier:
.
"Stamps printed by rotary press are always slightly wider or taller on issues prior to 1954." (Bold and underline is my emphasis.)
.
I think I heard somewhere that the most common cause of not issueing a certification by expertizing committees for this era is fraudulant tampering with the perferations.
.
Respectfully and good luck,

Gordon Lee
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:37 am

Gordon Lee wrote:
Greetings Mr. stampdays
.
Too bad your ruler isn't gauged to millimeters, 'cause my eyes are just as bad if not worse than yours and I'm terrible at math and arithmetic.
.
According to 2012 Scott Specialized:
.
552 = 18.5 to 19x22mm
594 = approx. 19.75x22.25mm
596 = approx. 19.25x22.5mm
.
According to 2010 H.E. Harris Stamp Identifier:
.
"Stamps printed by rotary press are always slightly wider or taller on issues prior to 1954." (Bold and underline is my emphasis.)
.
I think I heard somewhere that the most common cause of not issueing a certification by expertizing committees for this era is fraudulant tampering with the perferations.
.
Respectfully and good luck,

Gordon Lee


Hi Gordon Lee,

My perf guage's ruler is in mm but the imaging programs rulers are not. I do not know what scale they are in (probably none), but their is a difference between the two stamp widths and it looks to me that it is a quarter of mm on my ruler.

I see nothing mentioned about reperfed fake of this stamp but anything is possible. To reperf it, the perfs should cut into the design but that does not look that way to me.

I guess that I will have to spring for an expertising service some day soon but I hear they charge an arm and a leg if it is real. $20 or so bucks to find out its not would not be a problem but I think they charge a percentage of the value if it is.

Guess I need to research the cost before I make a decision.
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Greetings Mr. stampdays
.
You've probably already know this, but:
.
http://www.linns.com/howto/refresher/expertization_20040322/refreshercourse.aspx
.
Anyway, I hope this helps and good luck.
.
Respectfully,

Gordon Lee
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PostSubject: Re: US #552 vs ?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:34 pm

I found this on an auction site that had just sold one of the 13 known copies of #596.

http://stampauctionnetwork.com/y/y968b47.cfm

"At the beginning or end of rotary press printings, there was some leading or trailing paper that was too short for either rolling into coil rolls, or for perforating for 400-subject plates. In 1919, the Bureau devised a plan to salvage this waste by perforating and cutting the sheets into panes. These were put through the flat-plate perforating machine in use at the time, giving the stamps full perforations on all sides."

That pretty much excludes it from being #596 as all were perfed on all four sides.

What I can't figure out is why it is 19.25mm wide and looks to be less clear that the other #552's that I have. That sounds like a rotary press to me.

There is no reference that some of the printer waste was ever used to create booklets, whether officially or unofficially.

I might just spent the $40 and get an expert to explain this, if they can.

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